The UNcivilized Podcast

| Apr 13, 2020

How a Pandemic May Shift the Way the World Views Masculinity with Jack Donovan

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Have you ever considered how a pandemic such as the one we’re facing in today’s world could drastically shift the way the world looks at and appreciates masculinity? In this episode, I am joined by Jack Donovan, author of The Way of Men to discuss masculinity and how this pandemic could reshape men and the way that the world looks at men in culture. We discuss a possible resurgence of tribalism, why many men are disconnected from leading and why ritual is essential for masculinity.

About Jack Donovan

Jack Donovan has been writing and speaking about masculinity, masculine philosophy and spirituality for over a decade. His foundational book, The Way of Men, has sold over 100,000 copies worldwide and has been translated into French, German, Portuguese, Spanish and Polish.

Donovan is an occasional speaker and often appears on podcasts to discuss masculinity and the challenges faced by men who want to live masculine lives in the 21st Century.

He hosts a new podcast titled Start the World.

He lives in the Pacific Northwest, where he has constructed an “experimental pagan ritual space” called “Waldgang,” somewhere in the hinterlands.

Connect with Jack

Instagram: @starttheworld

What You’ll Hear

2:51 Jack’s experience of navigating the coronavirus pandemic so far
3:56 His creative process and tips for people using this time to create
5:07 His best piece of advice for writers
5:38 The problem that Jack was trying to solve by writing his book
9:44 How the current pandemic will affect the world’s take on masculinity
10:40 Why men need to be masculine for themselves
13:46 How this pandemic will test and reshape men
16:28 Why men feel disconnected from the leading and decision-making process
19:28 Why masculinity is a tricky thing to speak about
23:52 Jack’s thoughts on why society needs bigger than life people to help us want to be better
25:35 Approaching his life and work as an artist before approaching it as a man
28:49 How he sees the world differently as an artist
32:31 What he loves most about art
35:38 Being consistent with your brand, who you are and what you put out into the world
36:47 A resurgence of tribalism in men right now
41:10 His thoughts on a reorganization of priority around tribalism
46:24 Why Jack defines himself as a pagan and what that means
50:44 The power of ritual and what it’s done for male culture
54:45 How the absence of ritual can be very detrimental to men and their sense of belonging
55:21 What drew Jack to jiu-jitsu
59:31 The most prolific questions that Jack gets from people


“I feel like if things get really bad here then the rest of the world is already on fire.”

“The hardest part of writing is organization.”

“At the end of the day if you’re not saying something that matters or solving a problem for people then who cares?”

“Masculinity is very poorly defined.”

“Masculinity is a tricky thing to speak about because it calls your own masculinity into question with both men and women.”

“I think about the big story of my life and that’s kind of how I make a lot of decisions.”

“You want to build a local network of people who are on the same page as you that you can depend on.”

“Ritual melds the subconscious with the conscious.”

“If you’re not in the mainstream then you're kind of a barbarian and you're kind of uncivilized in some ways.”

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